Gary Paul Nabhan is an agricultural ecologist, ethnobotanist, Ecumenical Franciscan Brother, and author of thirty-four books who has devoted his life to understanding the relationships among species in ecosystems and between human beings and their environments. His work spans regenerative agriculture, habitat conservation, indigenous communities, and so much more. In addition to his work in science, for which he has won many awards, including a MacArthur “Genius” grant, he is a poet, artist, and writer. In this podcast we talk about his latest book, Water in the Desert: A Pilgrimage, published by Milkweed Editions.

2’53 first draft of the book tried not to use the word “I”
4’06 where Gary grew up in the wilds of the Indiana lakeshore
5’22 getting to know wild animals, feeling that he was in conversation with them from an early age
6’42 the “naturalist’s trance”
8’04 working on the railroad and learning teamwork
9’16 collaboration as central to our survival and well-being
10’21 studying relationships in nature rather than individual species in isolation
12’17 thinking in verbs more than in nouns, which is the structure of many Indigenous languages
12’27 poem, a renouncement of “nounosity”
13’07 noticing the link between human suffering and the degradation of the natural world
13’53 ancestors from Syria and Lebanon were climate refugees
15’04 wilderness and people in harmony with each other
15’57 human and environmental healing go together
16’44 interaction ecology and food webs
18’31 the collapse of the fishing industry in his area of Lake Michigan
19’12 being part of the first Earth Day
21’05 Earth Day was originally about environmental justice and civil rights
22’49 he’s working with both urban and Indigenous communities on food production
24’29 parallels between desert and ocean ecosystems
28’40 relationship with the Comcáac people
31’27 reforestation for the Comcáac (Seri)
35’05 engaging chefs in the environmental restoration
36’29 training “para-ecologists”
39’19 the mutual respect between the indigenous para-ecologists and the scientists
41’42 the benefits of the “leaderless” organic process and bringing in different kinds of intelligence
45’25 Gary as a poet, writer, and artist as well as a scientist, and how those things go together
47’55 being a Franciscan brother
51’08 the idea of sacredness
54’01 plant intelligence
57’09 the increase in the importance of scent for Gary
59’24 Colorado River and its problems
1:04’16 shift in what crops we grow in the Colorado River watershed
1:07’09 the role of regenerative agriculture in this shift
1:08’35 prioritizing nutrient density
1:10’14 developing an ecological consciousness
1:13’31 add publisher and where you can get the book
1:13’34 link to book